OK everyone, here are the two things that we all need to do:

 

#1: Saturday, go out and sign the petition, and get the income tax referred to a vote!!!  If anyone here still trusts the word of someone like Stewart, I pity them for their folly.

 

Here are the locations tomorrow where you can sign the petition:

 

Graffiti Alley, 675 River Road, Eugene

 

Econo Lodge, 1190 W. Sixth Ave., Eugene.

 

Eugene Elks Lodge No. 357, 2470 W. 11th Ave., Eugene.

 

Immanuel Baptist Church, 3050 Game Farm Road, Springfield.

 

Emerald Isle Mobile Home Park, Recreation Room, 658 S. 57th St., Springfield.

 

Hearth & Patio Shop, 85295 Highway 101,Florence.

 

Ray’s Food Place, 25013 Highway 126, Veneta.

 

D&D Classic Automotive, 1180 Ivy St., Junction City.

 

#2: Next week, go to one of the two Commissioners public meetings they will be having, and sign up for the public comments, and give them an earful!!

 

Here is the info on the two meetings:

 

TUESDAY, MARCH 13, 2007 - WORK SESSION

 

9:00 a.m.    (Commissioners' Conference Room)

 

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 14, 2007 - REGULAR MEETING

 

9:00 a.m.    (Commissioners' Conference Room)

 

The location for both meetings is the same:

 

Public Service Bldg.

125 East 8th Avenue

Eugene, OR  97401

Phone:  682-4203

 

The time for debating this matter has ended.  It is now time to TAKE ACTION!  Get out there tomorrow, and also next week.

 

Lance in Springfield

While the cost of County and all government funding keeps going up at the rate of 6%or more per year, Wages are lucky to rise at the rate of %2 per year. People are tired of paying taxes for nonexisting services.
I would propose a $.50 sur charge on all sports and entertainment event tickets sold or for use in Lane county and press the commissioners to enact this sur charge.
Bill Dwyer once said " We'll take all you will give us and come back for more"

robbins2334:

While the cost of County and all government funding keeps going up at the rate of 6%or more per year, Wages are lucky to rise at the rate of %2 per year. People are tired of paying taxes for nonexisting services. I would propose a $.50 sur charge on all sports and entertainment event tickets sold or for use in Lane county and press the commissioners to enact this sur charge. Bill Dwyer once said " We'll take all you will give us and come back for more"

Robbins, how much money would your proposed surcharge generate? Would it be enough to make a  difference? How does the cost of the county services we pay for compare with those in Washington, Nevada, Idaho and California? How does our overall tax burden compare with those states? Those are the questions folks like Lance and Ben Pooler consider irrelevant...

They're focused on killing our public safety system even if it barely saves them enough money to buy a cheap six-pack each week. They could care less that we get more for less, and pay MUCH less in taxes than others in Oregon, OR other pacific coast states OR most of the USA. They're all about being part of the "too much tax" message and getting rid of the cops, jail-space and DAs. They don't need to understand any of the numbers.

I think the Sheriff and DA should send Ben Pooler and crew pictures and summaries from that last few dozen unsolved murders/rapes/missing persons - and thank them for doing all they could do to keep those cases unsolved - and keep the bad guys on the streets.

Like most of the folks supporting Ben Pooler's team, Lance can't bother to learn the facts or talk to any of the people who know them; they're all making a stand for "principaled ignorance".

    While crime rates may be somewhat exaggerated, they are still at their current level quite higher than they should be.  I have some doubts that the recent strings of murders have a direct relation to the decrease in police officers.  However, if a person was inclined to commit such an act, knowing that the closest officers may be hours away might quiet the voice in his head saying, "Don't do it... we might get caught!"  Instead, he might listen to the voice that says, "Why not?  You probably won't get caught, heck, you can make a sandwich after and still make a clean getaway."

    I think most people voted the tax down, because they thought the county was mismanaging funds.  The common opinion is that the county mishandles the tax money they get and instead of fixing the problem at it's root, they just want to throw more money at it.  I personally have no idea how well the county balances their checkbook.  In my opinion public safety is very important.  I also believe in having a county government who can manage funds appropriately.

   Maybe if the public, such as I, took more interest in how the county handled it's funds and researched whether the increase was necessary, then the bill might pass next time. 

Flak_Jakett:

    While crime rates may be somewhat exaggerated, they are still at their current level quite higher than they should be.  I have some doubts that the recent strings of murders have a direct relation to the decrease in police officers.  However, if a person was inclined to commit such an act, knowing that the closest officers may be hours away might quiet the voice in his head saying, "Don't do it... we might get caught!"  Instead, he might listen to the voice that says, "Why not?  You probably won't get caught, heck, you can make a sandwich after and still make a clean getaway."

    I think most people voted the tax down, because they thought the county was mismanaging funds.  The common opinion is that the county mishandles the tax money they get and instead of fixing the problem at it's root, they just want to throw more money at it.  I personally have no idea how well the county balances their checkbook.  In my opinion public safety is very important.  I also believe in having a county government who can manage funds appropriately.

   Maybe if the public, such as I, took more interest in how the county handled it's funds and researched whether the increase was necessary, then the bill might pass next time. 

That's precisely the problem, Flak_Jakett, MANY people share that opinion without any basis in fact. I have inquired, as have many others, because the county's financial books are open, accessible and understandable. They're also scrutinized by outside accounting firms to guarantee grant compliance and very bonding information. (Links provided in other threads here.) I found the county's good money management and extraordinary staffing shortages nothing short of amazing. Lane County is the leanest government in Oregon, with staffing that is so low it actually precipitates mandated minimum staffing agreements from the state - because the county was doing the job with fewer staff members than the state considered appropriate! (As in the case with Assessment and Taxation.) The Lane County line-worker to supervisor ratio is also the best in the state at nearly 13 line-workers for every supervisor. The Oregon the average is closer to 7 to 1, and the City of Eugene is near 5 to 1!  County employees are also paid less than their counterparts in Eugene and other similar-sized Oregon jurisdictions and MUCH less than their private sector counterparts or their California and Washington counterparts.

Collectively these data and others formed my favorable opinion of county fiscal managment. Interestingly, even other Oregon Counties recognize that they're fortunate to be in better shape than Lane - which is consistently held out as the "financially starved county".

Also, Flak, I don't know which data you're relying on when you claim that the rate is "exaggerated". The real numbers are bad enough. The numbers I've shared here come from LEDS (State Police Law Enforcement Data System), OJIN (Oregon Judicial Information Network), DACMS (DA Case Managment System) and, in some instances, the FBI (which collects it's data directly from the police agencies.) They're the same sources that used to make Lane County look like a nice place to live...

If somebody can tell me how to post a document where all can read it, I'd be happy to share the numbers and graphs.

In answer to "How much money my proposal generate"?
Consider the number of tickets sold just for the foot ball and basket ball games for the U of O. Then add on all the tickets to The other U of O events, all the highschool and elementry school events, Ems base ball, rodeos, car racing, Lane county fair, and this dosen't take into account the hundreds of other events at the Hult, the Shedd, and private clubs where addmission is charged. The amount of money that woud be generated would be phenominal.

robbins2334:

In answer to "How much money my proposal generate"? Consider the number of tickets sold just for the foot ball and basket ball games for the U of O. Then add on all the tickets to The other U of O events, all the highschool and elementry school events, Ems base ball, rodeos, car racing, Lane county fair, and this dosen't take into account the hundreds of other events at the Hult, the Shedd, and private clubs where addmission is charged. The amount of money that woud be generated would be phenominal.

You don't know either, huh?

I thought as much.

I appreciate your speculation, but the county can't spend or bond "phenomenal". Policy makers have to do a real analysis of needs, costs and revenue projections - in dollars.

There are people and programs capable of accurately estimating tax revenue using population numbers and other data that define the frequency of use/attendance for  movies, theatres, sporting events and restaurants, but even without such information we can rough-out the numbers based on your proposal.

To put it in perspective, the largest number-generating event, a sold-out UofO football game, would generate only enough money to keep the jail's 84 bed north wing open for a few days (less than four) - so a hundred sold out UofO games (eight years worth?) would pay for that wing (for one year) and start on funding another wing. (A right-sized jail for this county would have a capacity of at least 830 beds, and the Jail Commander kevin Williams said "1,000 beds are needed"... How many UofO footbal games would it take to fund that?)

At 50 cents per ticket, and assuming no collection costs (probably unrealistic, as retailers are usually compensated for tax collection), the County would need sales of 40,000,000 tickets to compensate for loss of the federal money that used to support the general fund. It would require  closer to 100,000,000 tickets sold to generate enough money to replace ALL of the Secure Rural Schools money that went to schools, the road fund and the county general fund. If we wished to cover that AND recover the mediocre public safety staffing Lane County enjoyed 25 years ago we'd need to sell more like 150,000,000 tickets. It would require more like 200,000,000 tickets (that's 200 million) sold per year to bond an average-sized jail and bring the Lane County Public Safety system up to something close to national average - but nobody is talking about something as extravagant as getting out system to average. That's just too ambitious. What's that mean?

At the low end our 335,000 Lane County residents would have to buy an average of 119 tickets per resident per year - or 600 tickets per resident per year if the intent is to recover enough to really fix the system - and none of that tax burden would be shared by corporations.

You must go out more than we do.

Our family attends UofO football and basketball games when we can, and we occasionally go to the movies, eat out, or rent movies. We went to the symphony twice last year, saw three musicals at the Hult Center, went to two high-school plays and attended six high school football games. With DVD and home theatre we go to the movies less these days - but I think we still go out MUCH more than most folks, and we'd have a hard time breaking 50 tickets per person per year. Our family is probably closer to 30 tickets per person if our kids are averaged in - and MANY Lane County residents don't go out to ticketed events at all.

Unless there are a BUNCH of families that are going out to a few ticketed events every day,  this tax would generate a very small percentage of the necessary money. It isn't even in the ballpark, so to speak - not even close. (Which is what the accounting firm told the commissioners when they reviewed the possibility many months ago.)

This is the way it is with suggestions from the public. People always assume there is plenty of money, or it's an easy problem to solve, or any idiot could do the math - or any number of other similarly incorrect assumptions. They have been trying to get our attention and invite our real suggestions and constructive input for YEARS, but few will take the time to engage their brains long enough to even define the scope of the problem. After more than two decades of decay and collapse, this isn't a $3 million dollar problem - it's twenty years of cumulative $3 million dollars problems -- and that doesn't even include the cost of replacing the buildings that are falling apart...

It's a BIG problem. And ignoring it for another 20 years isn't going to make it any cheaper. We're going to pay a lot either way now...

I just reread the first few posts on this thread. It's obvious that the first author had access to the Public Safety report referenced in the neighboring thread. He should have posted the link to the report in the beginning, as the report is far more powerful than all the people trying to paraphrase it.

Also, since the report points people to the original data sources, it mutes the folks like Lance who are participating without benefit of the facts.

Hope:

I just reread the first few posts on this thread. It's obvious that the first author had access to the Public Safety report referenced in the neighboring thread. He should have posted the link to the report in the beginning, as the report is far more powerful than all the people trying to paraphrase it.

Also, since the report points people to the original data sources, it mutes the folks like Lance who are participating without benefit of the facts.

It's the people without the facts who get involved in local politics. Look at Ben Pooler! He's got NO idea what is going on, and he's the people's champion. (Hum "Simpsons" theme here.)

Heck, I watched the televised Lane County budget hearings last night. Commissioner Sorenson had NO idea what was going on. He kept asking very stupid questions that were answered, clearly and repeatedly, in the materials provided by the department heads and budget analysts. He did the same thing when he was briefed by the department directors the last time. Nobody who survived law school could be as stupid as he appears to be, so Sorenson must be acting stupid because that's the profile his constituents prefer.

Why don't people in Lane County care about public safety,

  I keep hearing this statement and I do care about public safety, but, not to the point of being a total idiot. By this I mean if Lane county was capable of handling there finances a little better they would not need this tax. We need firehouses with separate bedrooms for men & women (at what cost) why? they are not adults maybe?  And what about the lottery paying for education it seems like lane county will say what ever, to get the money they want and then do what ever they feel like with the money after they get it. I could go on but, I think you get my point. I think this is the thing that should change.

As for Ben Pooler it really does not matter if he has the facts or not because, the tax thing is  about principals (integrity). We had just said no to this tax. If are votes don't count why do we bother? (Maybe they would like it better if we didn't bother)

fedup:

Why don't people in Lane County care about public safety,

  I keep hearing this statement and I do care about public safety, but, not to the point of being a total idiot. By this I mean if Lane county was capable of handling there finances a little better they would not need this tax. We need firehouses with separate bedrooms for men & women (at what cost) why? they are not adults maybe?  And what about the lottery paying for education it seems like lane county will say what ever, to get the money they want and then do what ever they feel like with the money after they get it. I could go on but, I think you get my point. I think this is the thing that should change.

As for Ben Pooler it really does not matter if he has the facts or not because, the tax thing is  about principals (integrity). We had just said no to this tax. If are votes don't count why do we bother? (Maybe they would like it better if we didn't bother)

See, fedup, that's exactly the problem. You're an average Lane County voter, and you are a total idiot. You're "fedup" about things that are either not happening, or they're happening but they have nothing to do with Lane COunty. Here's a partial description of your incorrect assumptions.

First, Lane County doesn't have "firehouses". If you're talking about the City of Eugene it's completely irrelevant, because the city, county, state and federal finances are completely separate. You can't teach the city to make better financial decisions by starving the county - obviously.
    a) If the county did have a fire department it would be required to observe legal standards, just as the city does. The annualized/amortized cost of separate bathrooms couldn't be less significant.

Next, Lane County IS managing it's ["there"] finances well. Unfortunatelymany of our citizens are too lazy, too apathetic (and too stupid?) to read enough to figure it out.

The problem is simple: the Lane County marginal property tax rate is the lowest in the state, and less than half the Oregon average. In fact, at $1.28 per $1,000 of assessed property value, it's less than 20% of the Eugene rate, and approximately one-third of the Oregon metro county average!!  (Of course, since our citizens don't read, they assume Lane County gets as much money as the other counties, so they stupidly assume that the financial problems reflect poor fiscal management. They don't bother to read, listen or learn - so they'll continue making stupid decisions.

Third, the county has no lottery.

Fourth, Lane County isn't "saying" anything that isn't true, and if you bothered to read the text of the text of the proposed tax you'd know that it's totally different from the one that was submitted to the voters last fall. In the unlikely event that the tax is approved the commissioners will not be able to "do whatever they want with it", because the permissible uses are described/defined and limited. Regardless, it's silly to suggest that the commissioners would not choose to pay for public safety if they had the money to pay for it. History proves otherwise.

Your last sentence was the most ignorant of all. Do you have any idea what has happened over teh last eight months? Apparently not. Here are the facts:

1) In November commissioners proposed a new tax to  repair/enhance Lane County's pathetic public safety system which was near the bottom in the USA after twenty-five years of collapse. If the dedicated public safety tax had passed our system might have made it towards the top of the worst ten percent in the USA, and that would have helped the county to fight the AWFUL local crime rate, now near the worst in the USA. (Did you even bother to read the crime/system/statistics that were linked in the neighboring thread?!??)

2) In a county of 336,000 people the November tax proposal failed by approximately 1,600 swing votes. However, 48% of the citizens voted FOR the tax.) Shortly thereafter THE COUNTY LOST THE FEDERAL "SRS" FUNDING FOR WHICH RENEWAL HAD BEEN ANTICIPATED ON FEBRUARY 15TH!!!!

3) The commissioners polled citizens who voted against the income tax to see WHY they voted against it and if they would be willing to change their minds if the most objectionable sections were removed/changed. The top three citizen complaints were:
    a) The wording was confusing,
    b) The tax was unfair as only PERS retirees were exempted
    c) The property tax roll-back benefited the "rich" too much. SO.......

4) The commissioners gave up on the idea of trying to "fix" the public system, but they could not allow a system that was already the worst in the USA to suffer a 30% cut (from the loss of federal money), so they made the changes the citizens asked for and imposed the tax (pursuant to the authority they've had for MANY years. The changes were based on the citizen complaints:
    1) The wording was corrected and the tax dedication and structure are described in two measures.
    2) The commissioners do not have the authority to tax PERS retirement so they exempted other types of retirement income. (The Oregon legislature has the exclusive right to tax PERS and the commissioners couldn't fix that.)
    3) The property tax roll-back was eliminated

So the commissioners responded to a new, huge, funding crisis that was handed to them by the feds and the people of Lane County. After imposing layoffs in 12 of the last 15 years they were not prepared to absorb a 30% cut in staff and still keep the programs operating. So they imposed the new and different tax according to the information provided by the citizens.

And Ben, fedup, and the rest of the non-reading Simpsons don't care about any facts...

Like I told you, Spanky,  we get whatever system the Simpsons vote for, and they can't be bothered by the facts! I guess we should be grateful they're not voting for space-alien research in lieu of what's left of police services.

I still think the funniest part is this: The dumb-dumbs want to fire the conservative, frugal commissioners (Green, Dwyer, and Stewart), so they can be left with the traditional tax-n-spend
faction.

GO SIMPSONS!!

Let's be willing to put forth some taxes to pay for public safey. Those who get violated will screem the loudest when it happens to them, but they are the very folks who voted no on the Lane County Income Tax.

I am outraged at the lack of concern about this problem county wide.

Halo: If you think Calling me an Illiterate, Stupid, Idiot (by the way just how old are you?) will make me go away, your wrong.

City, County, State, Federal they are all (metaphorically speaking) blood sucking Lice that are so closely entwined (that’s the way they want it, makes it easier to pass the buck) that it really doesn’t matter which one is the biter. But, you seem to think I should discriminate about which nit I pick.
A hand in my pocket is just that. It really doesn’t matter who’s hand it is. It’s like a person with a butch of kids running around wanting a nickel here and a dime there this will not only adds up but, it will break you up eventually.

So if (your halo wearing commissioners) made the changes to the income tax, why didn’t they put it to the vote again? (because this is better?) Or were they worried that the Simpsons might figure out the only different was words.

Yea! us dumb-dumbs are still out here.

fedup:

Halo: If you think Calling me an Illiterate, Stupid, Idiot (by the way just how old are you?) will make me go away, your wrong.

City, County, State, Federal they are all (metaphorically speaking) blood sucking Lice that are so closely entwined (that’s the way they want it, makes it easier to pass the buck) that it really doesn’t matter which one is the biter. But, you seem to think I should discriminate about which nit I pick.
A hand in my pocket is just that. It really doesn’t matter who’s hand it is. It’s like a person with a butch of kids running around wanting a nickel here and a dime there this will not only adds up but, it will break you up eventually.

So if (your halo wearing commissioners) made the changes to the income tax, why didn’t they put it to the vote again? (because this is better?) Or were they worried that the Simpsons might figure out the only different was words.

Yea! us dumb-dumbs are still out here.

Yep you're still out there... Ignorant and proud of it...  Facts don't matter - that's your motto. How can anybody argue with logic like that?

Yes, the government, any government, requires taxes to survive and function. So as long as you're not a victim of a crime, and you don't need to educate a kid, grand-kid or nephew, and there is no infectious disease, and  you don't give a crap about anybody but yourself, you're in great shape. If you ever get to the point where you want a law enforcement response that looks something like the rest of the USA, you're going to have to learn to pay for it like the rest of the USA does. That's not a big deal, really, as it's only about 50 cents on every $100 you earn, if you earn more than $20,000... If you're just another blow-hard earning next-to-nothing, you will not pay at all. Again.

I understand why you're smug, because you're on the winning side of this tax argument, but I don't understand the idea of celebrating ignorance. It's never good to have no idea what you're talking about. You should want to do something about that ;-)

By the way, I don't think describing you will make you go away, nor will pointing out the volume of your misconceptions. Determined ignorance will survive no matter what others do.

All I can hope for is a sort of survival of the fittest, but that doesn't seem to apply in Lane County. As one of the law-enforcement-folks said, "Lane County is the Twilight Zone of Law Enforcement - none of the common sense rules work here."

I'm a Baby-boomer, not that it makes any difference. We've seen ignorance of your magnitude survive every controversy, every war, every issue.... It's just that most of the time, in most places, you're grumbling about the solutions imposed by the majority. Her in Lane County we're stuck with the policies the kooks adopt, so we're stuck in the Twilight Zone, a place you and the other dumb-dumbs are proud to call home.