Seriously though, ladies and gentlemen and rgl1345; I realize how hard it must be to understand for those of you who have never had much exposure to a Pit Bull. It's understandable why many folks have never had the desire to get to know such a dog, considering all the bad press about them. Unfortunately you can Google all day long and find stories and so called statistics that show favor to the Pit Bull or oppose everything about the dog. Regardless of your opinion of this breed, I think that the real issues here are breeding and irresponsible ownership. First of all, in my opinion, nobody should be breeding dogs. There is an exuberant number of dogs in shelters and rescues across the country today but when many people decide they want a pet, this materialism that we seem to come by naturally has us thinking that we need to have a purebred pooch with papers to ride along side us in our new SUV. If there were no breeders selling dogs then one, possibly two things would happen- Without an option, people would be adopting dogs from rescues and shelters and/or stupid people would stop owning pets altogether in-turn cutting down on the number of strays, many aggressive, who run our streets. Let's face it, with the hypersensitive society we live in today such a feat would not be possible as everyone believes that they are entitled to be a selfish in anyway they see fit and if anyone tries to stop them they'll sue.

So maybe an easier solution that would be met with less resistance would be to place stricter restrictions on who can own pets. Currently it seems as if most breeders, shelters or rescues require an application for owning a pet. In addition to this, if a potential pet owner was required to have an application approved by law enforcement, animal control or another governing body in their own home county or city prior to applying for pet ownership with the organization adopting the pet out maybe we could see numbers of homeless pets increase. The only issue here would be funding to implement and maintain such a program. One could hope that the current economical crisis in this country may cut down on the number of breeders but honestly I would bet that the current crisis would be more likely to have a larger impact on individuals abandoning pets leading to more dangerous stray animals roaming our streets.

It amazes me to see the vast number of homeless dogs that are Pits or Pit mixes. I attribute this to irresponsible ownership. Let's face it, Pits are tough looking dogs. Therefore you have several low-lifes who can hardly take care of themselves thinking that they need a Pit. And do you think that these people are going to pay money to have their dog altered? No way, especially when you can breed it and make money, right? Two dogs humping sounds like an easy living for those of us who live outside the reality box. Once they realize all the "extra baggage" that comes along with a dog and/or its puppies, the quality of life for that pooch decreases dramatically. If the dog is lucky it gets rescued and ends up in a shelter but unfortunately, in many cases, the dog may starve to death, be killed by the owner or turned out on the streets making it society's problem.

So this is where we end up. Pits galore! Regardless of your stance on this breed it's hard to deny that the real problem here is overpopulation.

Knowing the breed, as previous owners, my family recently adopted our second Pit. My decision to do this was greatly influenced by the disturbing reality of all the Pits in shelters across the country. Realizing that many people have not had exposure to this breed and do not wish such exposure, I recommend that those of you responsible adults who do know the breed to consider giving a Pit a new home. Let's do what we can to keep the Pits out of the news. They don't need anymore bad press.

It's not "ignorant" to make decisions based on data, including data used to develop probabilities. Assessments of many kinds, arguably most kinds, are based on statistical probability.

It's possible to jump out of a plane at altitude without a parachute and survive. We know that because there are several people still walking around who had the misfortune of hitting the ground after their chutes failed to deploy. In each case there was an extraordinary circumstance which allowed survival, like the individual landing on a slope at just the right angle so the slope gradually absorbed the speed and mitigated the damage...

So not every jump without a parachute will be fatal. Not every teenage male is a lousy driver; in fact, some are so proficient they're successful race drivers. And yet, insurance companies charge a LOT of money to insure teenage males, because such a large percentage of them ARE lousy drivers.

If you take a look at the statistics, including those easily accessible via the internet, you'll find that Pit Bulls and Rottweilers represent a relatively small percentage of the large dog population. They're just not as popular as labs, goldens or even shepherds, yet they represent a majority of the fatal attack volume. That tend to be more violent.

That's not to say they don't have redeeming characteristics. Even some of the worst mass-murderers, like Ted Bundy, had plenty of redeeming characteristics. I suppose Pit Bulls do too. That's doesn't mean I'd want to own one. When the world is full of loving, intelligent dogs that can be friends AND defend the home AND perform a variety of other fun and friendly activities, why own an animal designed and predisposed to maim others?

You're absolutely right, it's not "ignorant" to make decisions based on data.  One may argue that it's ignorant to compare a whole breed of dog to Ted Bundy though.  Statistically white people commit more violent crimes that African Americans or Latinos.  Do you know any Caucasians?  Better watch your back if you do...

You're absolutely right, it's not "ignorant" to make decisions based on data.  One may argue that it's ignorant to compare a whole breed of dog to Ted Bundy though.  Statistically white people commit more violent crimes that African Americans or Latinos.  Do you know any Caucasians?  Better watch your back if you do...

Pits are not genetically disposed to be more violent or territorial than other dogs, it's just that (A). They happen to be 'better' at being violent if they are violent, and (B). Since they have the 'rep' of being a violent, aggressive, dog, most people that own/want one are LOOKING for a violent, aggressive, dog. And will train it to be that kind of dog. If you take an untrained pit, and treat/train it to be a loving family pet, it will be one, just like most other dogs would be.

Thank you redcity8, you just summed it up perfectly.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

Nice theory.

But I can't find any empirical support for it or any professionals who agree with it. I have a different theory and it's well supported.

Dogs, like horses and other animals that have been the subject of focused breeding to achieve particular characteristics, tend to reflect the results of that focus. Do you think they bred "Pits" for a particular jaw-and-tooth combination, but didn't select in favor of aggression? Nonsense.

It's not politically correct to make ANY generalizations about humans. If there are differences between races, we're obliged to ignore them, but there is no such obligation with respect to dogs. It's okay to acknowledge that Greyhounds are generally faster than great danes. It's okay to notice that Shepherds are generally smarter than, say, Pit Bulls, but not as smart as, say, Border Collies. Obviously, that doesn't mean that EVERY greyhound is faster than EVERY great dane, but I'd be money ahead if I continued to pick the greyhound to win the race :)

Ask any veterinarian whether there are differences in the "personalities" of the various dog breeds. I've asked several. Why don't you try. Ask if Pit Bulls are really no more aggressive and/or violent than, say, Golden retrievers. I don't think you'll find any who subscribe to the theory that all dogs are the same and it's ONLY the environment (owner) that makes them more smart/stupid/docile/aggressive.

Here's another thought: if all the vets are wrong, and all dogs really are the same, why not pick a breed that ISN'T so good at violence? Why not have one that that can get pissed off, or territorial, or defensive, or grumpy without such dire, devastating and permanent consequences? The pounds are full of non-lethal loving dogs being put to death...

A "dog" may 'get out' - this should be avoided as the dog could get lost or hurt. A dog that WILL ATTACK other dogs/animals without provocation MUST NEVER 'get out'. If this means you cannot have that dog at that house, so be it. If your neighbor had a 'pet' tiger, how would you like to hear the excuse,"Someone left the door/window open and he got out, sorry."

Maybe KMTR did not report the story because it was simply sensationalized.  I doubt if anyone would have reported the story at all if the headline was "Labrador Retriever attacks service dog" or simply "Dog attacks service dog." 

CHALLENGE:  Identify the pit bull:  http://www.understand-a-bull.com/Findthebull/findpitbull_v3.html

Some reading material for you.....

The American Kennel Club, which registers about 1 million dogs a year, says it has the best data available to rate the popularity of America's 74 million dogs. But it doesn't register mixes or undocumented dogs, which account for half of dogs, by AKC's own estimate.

And it doesn't consider pit bulls to be an official breed at all. So no one knows precisely how many pit bulls there are nationwide -- let alone which breed accounts for the highest number of attacks per dog. "Dog bite statistics are not really statistics, and they do not give an accurate picture of dogs that bite," warns a report from the American Veterinary Medical Association. "Invariably the numbers will show that dogs from popular, large breeds are a problem."

Read the whole article in the San Francisco Chronicle http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/07/03/BAGGMDILA41.DTL&hw=Data+on+pit+bulls+may+be+skewed+by+popularity&sn=002&sc=675

 

October is Adopt-a-Shelter Dog Month http://www.petfinder.com/search/search.cgi?pet.Animal=Dog&pet.Breed=&pet.Age=adult&pet.Size=&pet.Sex=&location=97408

LOL a tiger?  Ya that would be an issue but that's a wild animal that has not been domesticated.   Dogs; even evil blood-thirsty, service-dog hungry, pit bulls, as many refer to them; have been domesticated for hundreds of years.  I don't expect my neighbor's yorkie to get out nor do I expect my own to get out but we can't always plan for all circumstance.  Dogs, regardless of breed, are very intelligent creatures and fences can fail due to acts of god, vandalism, etc.  Thus the unfortunate incident of a dog escaping it's yard is a reality to almost any dog owner at some point in their dog's life.  As for specific dogs, not breeds, that have a history of "not playing nice with others,"  I think that the owner should be extra cautious while at the same time working with a professional to try and curb their pet's aggression.  In this particular case I think that clipping the dog's sack would be a good start.  There's nothing to lose there except, well, you get my point.  The Humane Society of the United States will tell you that neutering a dog could curb some of it's aggressive alpha-dog traits and I think that even if it doesn't it will definitely help to stop pet overpopulation.  I'm really unsure as to why these folks had their dog still in-tact, especially being of a breed that has a sadly overwhelming presence in shelters and rescues across the country.

rgl1345 ..Do you even know the owner's of this "VICIOUS DOG"? If not, then who the hell are you to say they don't give a damn what the dog does or who it hurts? Also if KMTR is such a joke to you then why the hell are you watching it and posting here about a breed you obviously have never had the pleasure of being around and know nothing about. I'm more afraid of your ignorance than you could possibly be of my breed of dog.Oh yea I might mention, I AM THE PROUD OWNER OF THREE AMERICAN PITBULLS!If I told you my Pitbull is a search and rescue dog would you still want to be saved?Let me educate you a little..PITBULLS ARE HEROES! The Pitbull was so popular in the early 1900's they were our mascot not only in World War One, but World War Two as well. They were featured on recruiting and propaganda posters during this time period. America's first war dog was a Pitbull named Stubby. He earned several medals during World War One and was honored at the White House. Stubby was wounded in action twice, he saved an entire platoon by warning them of a poison gas attack and he single handedly captured a German spy.The Ken-L-Ration dog hero of 1993 was a Pitbull named Weela. She saved 30 people, 29 dogs,13 horses and a cat during a flood in Southern California. Pitbull named Bogart saved a four year old child from drowning in a swimming pool in Florida.Dixie YEP another Pitbull was inducted into the Georgia Animal Hall Of Fame for saving some children. Pitbull Officer Neville Washington screens over 200 cars a day to help keep us safe from bombs.Popsicle is a narcotic and bomb sniffing Pitbull and has the largest recorded single drug find in Texas history. Including how he found over 3,000 lbs. of cocaine in Hildago,Texas. Petey,the Pitbull on Little Rascals  spent countless hours with children day after day and never hurt anyone. One of the most intelligent Hollywood dogs of all time.Hellen Keller had a Pitbull as her companion and helper.Pitbulls score an 83.4% passing rate with the American Temperament Test Society. They placed the 4th highest. That's better than the Border Collie(who scores 79.6%).The list is endless the good this breed has done and is currently doing.They are dogs not killing machines!What have you contributed to your community and country rgl1345?The number one reason why you can't trust vicious Pitbulls...They will steal your heart like a thief in the night,showing you complete and pure love that only a Pitbull can show. People should really get the facts before moving their lips about something they know nothing about.

Pitnalaska

 

zjmower:

...  Statistically white people commit more violent crimes that African Americans or Latinos.  Do you know any Caucasians?  Better watch your back if you do...

I'm not sure what you mean by "statistically" here. If you mean more violent crimes in total volume, and you include even misdemeanor violence, than you're right -- but that number tells you nothing, as Caucasians still comprise 75% to 80% of the U.S. population. If you mean to suggest that white people are statistically more likely to commit acts of violence, you couldn't be farther off the mark.

It's probably safer to talk about dogs.

I'm not an anti-Pit Bull person. Still, nobody can seriously argue that there are no differences between breeds in terms of average levels of aggression or fight-attack risk. As the other person said, dogs are not created equal.

I also agree with the person who pointed out that many of the people who select Pit Bulls do so because they want a mean dog, so their ownership makes the dogs mean.

Pit Bulls also seem especially popular in poor areas. Why?

- Because they're "pound dogs"? (cheap)
- Because crime is especially high in those areas and folks want protection?
- Because the dog-owners themselves are criminals who want the meanest, toughest dogs?
- Because "Pits" are accepted or tolerated well in "that" culture? (Let's face it, Pits tend to show up in jail tattoos more frequently than labs, but they don't tend to show up in the L.L. Bean and Lands End catalogs at all.)

Who knows? People should be held personally responsible for whatever their dogs/tigers/cats/guns do. If they need the biggest and baddest, they can own whatever consequences flow from that, as they're clearly more responsible for any negative consequences that flow from their choices than the innocent victim who happened to be walking down the street (or sitting in her yard). Don't want to face the prospect of getting thrown in jail and losing your house because your dog got out, killed a guide dog and mauled a blind man? Get a Basset Hound -- or whatever. The most irritating folks? The ones who consistently make high risk choices and then figure everybody else should share equally in paying for the resulting damage.

Yes I do know the dirt bags and their dog. Some pits are heroes just as some people are good. These dirt bags decided to not properly confine their animal. This was not the first time these clowns we in trouble with a pit bull.
I could toss a ball and hit their house so I do know them and what they are.

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I belong to PETA...People Eating Tasty Animals

Oh Christ!  I thought this discussion had finally fizzled out.  Last month called and they want their forum back.  Let it go, the rest of us have.